Was Mace Windu truly stronger than Yoda?

Dec 2, 2021
yoda and mace windu

How powerful was Mace Windu? Was he stronger than Yoda?

Not many people have realised that Mace Windu was a more powerful Jedi that Yoda.

How so you may ask?

This can't be true!

Yoda was a bad ass - we saw him take on Count Dooku and the Emperor!

And that is true, Yoda fought Dooku in Attack of the Clones and fought an epic saber duel against Palpatine himself.

But Yoda did not beat Palpatine.

Who did beat Emperor Palpatine?

Mace Windu did. 

He beat him fair and square. 

It was only the naive intervention of Anakin Skywalker that allowed the Emperor a literal window of opportunity to send Mace out the window to his presumed death.

I'd thus contend that by virtue of Yoda being unable to defeat the Sith Lord and that Mace managed to defeat him, Mace Windu was a more powerful Jedi than Yoda.

It's arguable of course, there are many other attributes of being a Jedi that can be defined as powerful or stronger. 

If you want to boil it down, Jedi are knights and how are knights ultimately judged?

By their swordsmanship.

This raises an interesting point.

In the novelisation of Revenge of the Sith, Windu suggests to Kenobi that Kenobi is the better swordsman, thus making him the most powerful Jedi!

* For those seriously troubled by such lines of thinking, treat this as a brain exercise for head canon - it's just a bit of fun. 


  1. Palpatine didn't lose. He appeared weak for Anakin's benefit in order to lure him to the dark side. Which, of course, worked.

    1. I tend to disagree with this premise. Just basing on the film itself, it can be clearly seen that Palpatine would be dead already if Anakin wasn't there to intervene. Plus the fact that as a Sith and in the essence of self-preservation, why would Palpatine allow himsel to be hideously deformed? What a lame excuse to mutilate yourself just to gain the allegiance of Anakin. Palpatine was defeated in that scene plain and square. It may not always happen though since battle is A HIGHLY DYNAMIC SITUATION. One time you may be at a disadvantage, and at other times you get the upper hand.

  2. I think disagree with your comment - Windu had him beat before Anakin turned up - did he even know Anakin was on his way?

  3. The whole war was a ruse for Sidious to create the strongest Sith, either way he was gonna win. Do you think he could not "sense" Skywalker or count on him coming at that crucial moment to finally corrupt him? Chess is so much easier when you're playing both sides.

  4. This is armchair warrior talk: that's not how real fights are like, as if a person's powerfulness level is set in stone without regard for terrain and context. Mace Windu was not necessarily more powerful than Yoda (and vice versa) or Palpatine (and vice versa). To illustrate, just read and watch the conflicts of three of the greatest real life fighters in history: Ali, Frazier, and Foreman.

    So, Frazier defeated undefeated Ali... but Foreman defeated Frazier... and was then defeated by Ali. So, who was the more powerful? Even if you use their win-lose-draw ratio to try and determine who was more powerful, it does not determine who will win a fight.

    So ol' Mace was able to defeat Palpatine. Maybe Mace had time to watch Palpatine's fighting form as he killed the other Jedi, giving him an edge. Maybe it's because they were fighting in an enclosed space and Mace's Vaapad was better suited to enclosed spaces. Maybe that's why Palpatine, when he fought Yoda, made sure to go into the senate auditorium, so he can never be cornered like that. Maybe if Yoda had been in the Chancellor's office instead of Mace he would have ended the fight sooner. If Mace was more powerful, why did he need a lightsaber to stop Palpatine's Force Lightning?

    There all just had one fight apiece and there were too many fluid factors to go and determine who was more powerful.

    Armchair warrior talk.

  5. Thanks for your thoughts Gryphon Hall

    Yes, yes, this post was all in good fun - let's not compare the REAL world with a made up fictional universe shall we? That would mean we're taking the post a bit too serious.... BUT read the novel of the film of you haven't -- Yoda realised during he had lost the fight with Palpatine before he was even born. Mace had no such reservations, he was in it to win it and he did but he was tripped up by Anakin.

    May be the argument should have been structured around who was the best swordsman.

    For the record, I think Palpatine took a massive gamble on Anakin coming to the party and chopping off Mace's hand. Insights into the future and all that aside - if the play was to actually allow Mace to get with an inch of killing the Sith Lord simply so Anakin could save him, that was one of the ballsiest plays of all time. As I recall the novel never suggested this was the plan any way.

    But do novels inform the plot of the film? Not really.

  6. No, the"he lost on purpose"excuse is nonsense.Mace was a better swordsman period.

  7. No, I got POWERFUL from all the suffering I caused: recruited sith, dead jedis and all. So beating Yoda after that was no match. Aslo, swordsbattle skills are not equivalent to the power of the dark- nor the light (gay) side of the force.

  8. It will be obvious that it is too risky for emperor palptine to appear weakness to Anakin because mace can just kill him before anakin came,and he doesn't need to act so real before anakin came.

  9. Georges Lucas has said that Wind beat Palpatine but the ones we know the real power of Mace Windu, we knew already that Windy beat Palpatine.
    Remember that Windu used both forces light and dark, mixing blue and red makes purple, he was the only one at the order that was kind of grey jedi.
    He used forbidden movements in the order, there are a lot of examples, like the way he killed Fango, etc,...

  10. I really don't quite agree. On the point of Obi-Wan being the most powerful Jedi because of his swordsmanship: swordsmanship is not the only factor to consider. There is also Force prowess and other categories. Also, I have seen many people make the point that Palpatine threw his duel with Mace to get Anakin to turn to the Dark Side.

    That being said, I don't necessarily believe that Yoda is indeed stronger; I'm kinda 50-50 on that one (I just don't agree with the logic used). I think if Mace used Dark force powers it could be very close, and maybe Mace could indeed beat Yoda without it.


Powered by Blogger.
Back to Top